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There is a huge myth out there that states that women have been successfully giving birth for thousands of years, seemingly from the dawn of creation, without medical help or pain control. That is NOT true. That is one of the biggest loads of crap ever hoisted upon women. It goes hand in hand with the "Women were meant to suffer during child birth" explanation of original sin. If you have some kind of dogmatic religious belief that states that you NEED to be in pain when having your babies that is respectable and just fine with me but for everyone who does not subscribe to a dogma of guilt I would like you to realize that you have been tricked as well.
In the Urban Classical Mediterranean world it was extremely common for birthing women to use Opium to control the pain of their contractions. Rural women used methods of trance via controlled music. Was the use of Opium safe? Definately not. But did it alleviate the pain! I'm pretty sure it did. I don't know how long our human ancestors have been medicating themselves for pain but we are the exact same people now that we we're 20,000 years ago. Same body type, same brain capacity, same appearances. If anything... we're a little less sharp than our predicessors within the last 20,000 years. They had the means to control pain, believe me.
Now lets fast forward to the present. We have safer technology for pain control during child birth. Hospitals can make you literally as comfortable as you want to be. Everything that can be done will be done to protect you and your baby... Why do so many women feel pressured into birth plans that feature the latest rage in drugless pain control? (Psssst... its cheaper! In 2001 Natural births ran a little over $2,000 USD whereas the medicated, doctor assisted births ran at about $10,000 USD)
I want you to know that I am one of the biggest advocates of trance birth, I've done massive amounts of research on rhythmic birthing technique both traditional and practical. I respect a woman who can make an educated decision but I cannot let myself just stand by while I see women being bullied by fear and propaganda into making one decision or another. I say always go with what you're comfortable with. Don't deny yourself pain relief for the wrong reasons.
~*Gen*~
In the Urban Classical Mediterranean world it was extremely common for birthing women to use Opium to control the pain of their contractions. Rural women used methods of trance via controlled music. Was the use of Opium safe? Definately not. But did it alleviate the pain! I'm pretty sure it did. I don't know how long our human ancestors have been medicating themselves for pain but we are the exact same people now that we we're 20,000 years ago. Same body type, same brain capacity, same appearances. If anything... we're a little less sharp than our predicessors within the last 20,000 years. They had the means to control pain, believe me.
Now lets fast forward to the present. We have safer technology for pain control during child birth. Hospitals can make you literally as comfortable as you want to be. Everything that can be done will be done to protect you and your baby... Why do so many women feel pressured into birth plans that feature the latest rage in drugless pain control? (Psssst... its cheaper! In 2001 Natural births ran a little over $2,000 USD whereas the medicated, doctor assisted births ran at about $10,000 USD)
I want you to know that I am one of the biggest advocates of trance birth, I've done massive amounts of research on rhythmic birthing technique both traditional and practical. I respect a woman who can make an educated decision but I cannot let myself just stand by while I see women being bullied by fear and propaganda into making one decision or another. I say always go with what you're comfortable with. Don't deny yourself pain relief for the wrong reasons.
~*Gen*~
posted by:
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Virginia
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Re: Nothing Natural about "Natural Childbirth"
Tue, October 23, 2007 - 8:38 AMI'm not bullying or pushing an agenda when I advocate natural childbirth. Epidurals can cause serious complications, the least of which is not being in control of, or even connected to your birth experience. I won't look down on or condemn anyone who chooses otherwise, but this little rant doesn't really educate anyone one way or another. For my little rant, let me note that natural childbirth SHOULD involve a lot more than just not being drugged. Having been through natural childbirth at a midwife clinic and an undrugged hospital birth- it is not the same thing at all. Even with a fairly progressive hospital staff, you are pretty much set up for failure, fatigue and frustration. If you want details, talk to me. I really do agree that education is the key! I'm sorry if you've had a bad experience with guilt pushers, but please realize the majority of advocates are just that- advocates, not delusional screamers going off on how pain is good. I'm not advocating natural childbirth because I want everyone to suffer like I did. I'm doing it because it was a wonderful, joyful experience and a lot easier than many are led to believe.
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Re: Nothing Natural about "Natural Childbirth"
Tue, October 23, 2007 - 10:18 AMIf you don't know the answer to the questions you posed then you need to read Pushed: The Painful Truth About Childbirth and Modern Maternity Care by Jennifer Block.
There are quite a few other books on the subject but this one seems to have the best primary documentation. -
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Re: Nothing Natural about "Natural Childbirth"
Wed, October 24, 2007 - 7:05 AMPAIN IS BAD!!!!!!
the whole reason i did a hypnobirth class is because the whole vibe is that an unmedicated birth does not NEED to hurt. intense, yes, birth is always an intense experience; painful, no. my hubby (after going thru all these classes with me) decided fear is the main reason women have such pain. think about it--when you're pregnant, almost everyone tells you about their HORRIBLE labor, how long it took, and especially how bad it hurt. wouldn't you consider that a little scary? not to mention that you're told to tense up your entire body to push. getting real tense and stiff seems counterproductive to not having pain. lots of pain, no less. tense hipbones and muscles are not going to get out of the way of a crowning head very easily. anyway, i figured it sounded at least semi-logical :) the message i got from the hypnobirth class is that you need to get your (frightened) brain turned off, and let your body do the work. you're biologically designed for this, and your body is going to do just fine without your head getting in the way.
that said, i wound up having a (scheduled) c-section with my boy and his great big giant head (average size for a 12 month old. AT BIRTH), and i REFUSE to do SURGERY without pain meds, so i've never done the natural childbirth thing, but that's my 2 cents anyway. -
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Re: Nothing Natural about "Natural Childbirth"
Wed, October 24, 2007 - 8:18 AMI must say I disagree with you. I think pain is a good thing (not in a freaky-please-hit me sense). Without pain our species would not be in existence; it tells us when something is wrong. As far as birth is concerned, it lets us know our baby is coming and we need to prepare ourselves.
I do agree that having the right mindset is very important. However, what did your class say about back labor? I had a horrific labor experience (expecting a very good one) and went into it very excited and relaxed albeit tired. -
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Re: Nothing Natural about "Natural Childbirth"
Thu, October 25, 2007 - 6:18 AMi can only speak from my own experience, but it seemed to me that if your tensed up and expecting pain, you're more likely to feel pain. me, i was reading 'spiritual midwifery' during my pregnancy, and i just rode the energy, never perceiving it as pain, even when i tore badly. it all seemed primal and pure. or,as the book says, 'great, pure effort'. i've certainly never experienced anything more 'natural'. of course, if there are complications, that changes almost everything. -
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Re: Nothing Natural about "Natural Childbirth"
Thu, October 25, 2007 - 8:07 AM"Now lets fast forward to the present. We have safer technology for pain control during child birth. Hospitals can make you literally as comfortable as you want to be. Everything that can be done will be done to protect you and your baby..."
I'm not sure why you view modern birth intervention as safe, or how you have determined that women who do receive intervention are made more comfortable. My mother chose a home birth for her second and third pregnancies because of how incredibly uncomfortable the hospital intervention made her during her first birth in the hospital. I also think that you have completely abandoned one aspect of birth which sets it apart as a unique experience of the body, and this is the quality of memory. In my experience as a doula, women who have medicated births remember their labors as more painful than those who do not use medication. The reason for this is because as soon as that epidural or narcotic enters your system your body drastically cuts the amount of endorphines it produces during labor, and the drugs your body makes are infinitely more powerful than what they give you in the hospital. I did not use any particular method during labor, I danced and I did my own thing, and I would never be one to tell a horror story about the pain of childbirth to another person. It seems to me that most of those stories come straight out of the hospital, where you stated that women are "safe". I think a 30% cesarean rate is anything but safe. -
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Re: Nothing Natural about "Natural Childbirth"
Thu, October 25, 2007 - 3:47 PMI have to say, since I have been pregnant, I have heard about more methods of birthing than ever before & mind you I taught Anatomy/Physiology (including the reproductive system in detail) & I also taught pre-natal massage & infant massage at Everest College.
Lately here, I've been feeling more confused than ever about it all.
Originally, I had always thought that I would have water births...as I was practically raised in the water & believe sincerely that that is the most natural transition a baby can have.
However, I have certian medical conditions as well as financial conditions that have limited my options a bit.
In my confusion & wondering if I should feel guilty, or bad, about certian likely outcomes in my upcoming first birth, I've been asking many moms about their experiences.
I live in Utah now & it is seriously like baby capital.....KIDS EVERYWHERE...average 5-6 per family!!!!
All the mothers I have spoken with have 3 or more children...most have 5 or 6. Each of these women, who do not know eachother, said that all of their births were very different. Each woman had had at least one ceserian, at least one natural & at least one with an epidural. Each woman told me that all of their births were equally wonderful. They claimed to feel as connected to the natural birth as to the cesarian & epidural births. And, finally, they said that having an epidural was useful to enjoy the process more, in the moment, & that the only reason they had had a natural birth was because they TRUELY wanted to experience it for themselves. They always finished with something along the lines of....I believe that the "BEST" way to give birth is whatever works best for the mother & her desires, medical considerations, needs, etc. & that each method is as perfect as the next.
Our biggest gift in this world is that of "AGENCY," or rather the power to choose & our special addition, as women... is to be able to concieve and give birth.
With that said, I am probably the biggest advocate, I know of, for education.....
so here is my two cents: Let us gather as much knowledge as possible, decide what feels best for us personally, go with it & let others have the same respect to choose for themselves without passing unnecessary judgment.
Witht aht said, I realize we are humans and as such our brains naturally judge in order to analyze and deciede what is right and wrong; however, many judgements lead to unnecessary hurt/pain.
So let us band together as individual women, with knowledge to share (as I believe most here are). Afterall, that is the beauty of this dance form...is it not!!!?
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Re: Nothing Natural about "Natural Childbirth"
Thu, October 25, 2007 - 1:04 PMWow. It sounds like you may be having or have had a bad experience with someone trying to push you into doing something you didn't/don't want to.
I have to say that all of the women I have spoken to that have had "natural" childbirth did it for personal reasons of enjoyment, fulfillment, etc. rather than a sense of guilt or cajoling. We have so many options available to us. It's up to each individual woman to do their homework and find what will work best for them.
Personally, with mine I ran straight to a hospital and hollered for drugs, "NOW!" Unfortunately/Fortunately, both of my labors were too far advanced by the time I made it into the hospitals, and I had both of my boys "natural."
Looking back, I am so glad I didn't have the drugs! I have never experienced a moment in my life that I was more in-tune with my body and its capacity to create and endure! I felt every moment of it and it was truly sensational.
Sure, there was pain, but I ~felt~ my babies writhing to get out. I felt my body reacting. I felt that first press of their tiny heads, the release of their shoulders, and the euphoria of their bodies exiting completely. I felt what only we as women are able to feel. I felt what our bodies are especially made for. It was beautiful.
That being said, I support any woman's decision on manner of birthing. I don't think there are as many archaic guilt trips as you might think, Genisis.
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Re: Nothing Natural about "Natural Childbirth"
Thu, October 25, 2007 - 4:07 PMAs a former midwife, and a bellydancer, and a mama of two boys who were born at home... I just wanted to hop on here & say... wow... I'm sorry you feel so much anger toward the "myth" of natural childbirth. Of course all women are different- and there are natural birth nazis just like there are breastfeeding nazis and vegan nazis and so on... there will always be an extreme element to what people know is a truly awesome & highly personal experience....
There are ways to F*ck up anything beautiful. My mother had me, in a hospital, with pain relief, but she was handcuffed to her bed because she kept getting out of bed to squat. (she was in Korea, and Korean, and in a US hospital). To hear her horrifying story, there is nothing worse than birth. She still feels this way to this day. I don't blame her. I always grew up with the notion of "Thank god I live in a day and age where I can get medicated and not have to feel anything..."
Of course, that did ultimately change, and I used my experiences as a midwife to try to assist women in getting the birth of their choice... to try to be there for women, support them, breathe with them, hold them, and help them to have their babies as gently as possible. There is no such thing as an ideal birth. One woman may be devistated at the idea of having an epidural- another would not give birth without one- it is all a matter of personal choice. But I DO feel that so many people here in the US, especially in the South, do NOT ask questions, do not get answers, do not prepare for their births because they just expect their docs or the hospital to take care of business- and then they find out in hindsight that maybe they didn't need that episiotomy or epidural that led to a c/s or whatever the case may be. Many many many natural birth advocates climb up on soapboxes because they feel they *have to* to be heard over the incessant societal "get an epidural" or "natural birth is for lunatics".
I'm sorry you feel that women are bullied by fear to have natural childbirth. My personal experiences differ greatly- with the horror stories from girlfriends and sisters and mothers and aunts starting way before you get a little second pink stripe on that urine test. Women are SCARED to feel what it's like to give birth. Yes it hurts. But you know what? I wouldn't trade either of my boy's birth experiences for all the 'pain relief' in the world.
love, udit -
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Re: Nothing Natural about "Natural Childbirth"
Sat, October 27, 2007 - 7:59 AMvery well written udit, I agree completely. No woman should feel bullied either way. But I felt like the only birth stories I was hearing when I was pregnant with my daughter were horror stories, and exclamations of how I would be begging for that epidural. When I told people I was birthing at home the response was usually a mixture of "good luck with that" or "I could have never done that" or some variation of disbelief and doubt. The reality is women are bullied every day to have their births interfered with. I cold not even walk down the street without hearing why I wanted pain meds. Now, pregnant again, women do not seem to be throwing their stories at me as much. I guess it is because I am always with a toddler and they figure that I already know what I am in store for. And they are right, I do. I did not enter my first birth with fear, despite the many scary stories I was told, and I am actually looking forward to giving birth again. And yet the few reactions I do get in public seem to reflect a fear of having to repeat a terrible experience. I cannot help but wonder if some of these women have never been given the chance to really process and find the joy in their birth experiences because of all the fear that has clouded birth for them. And I am not saying that all epidural or narcotic assisted birth are ugly recollections, not at all, but the hospital environment is one that seems to breed and nurture fear. -
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Re: Nothing Natural about "Natural Childbirth"
Sat, October 27, 2007 - 1:47 PMhere's a non-horror story for you, and the story that i clung to all thru my first pregnancy:
my co-worker was pregnant with her second, and had had an epidural and internal monitoring and oxygen and pitocin and you name it with her first baby. she assumed she would be getting at least an epidural with her second labor and delivery. she was bummed to arrive at the hospital and find her doctor wasn't there yet (and therefore, not on hand to authorize medication). doctor arrives, just in time for pushing. soooooo.....no pain relief. 10 minutes or so later, my friend is holding her daughter, and she turns to the doctor and says, "that was so cool." IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARD. as in, before the memory of whatever pain there was starts to fade. she said it was amazing, and she wouldn't change it for the world.
i figured that if you could say "that was so cool", then it was something i could totally face unafraid.
i do hate how people love to share how horrible their birth experience was. gimme more pleasant stories, fewer scary stories. -
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Re: Nothing Natural about "Natural Childbirth"
Sun, October 28, 2007 - 7:46 AMI heard some pleasant stories when I was pregnant for natural childbirth, mixed in with the stranger comments of blood and horror. My mom was the best, especially since I know good and well my mother has no setting for "comforting lies" - she always, ALWAYS tells you the truth, and whatever's on her mind. She told me yeah it'll hurt, but it's nothing you can't get through, it's not the end of the world, and it'll go faster and be safer without induction and epidurals. My friend Niely had her daughter at home with a midwife, and remembers it being an easy birth - all 13lbs of her.
Of course once I found out it was twins... It was like people forgot the birth horror stories and went straight to "I cried the entire first year of their lives" stories. LOL yeah that's helpful.
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Re: Nothing Natural about "Natural Childbirth"
Sun, October 28, 2007 - 8:12 PMThis post is for women who feel pressured or forced into having a natural birth. It is not intended to be a pro or con, just food for thought.
While it may seem completely alien to some women, many cultures/places on this Earth still try to force or guilt trip women into "suffering" during labor. I have watched dozens of women go through it, the glares from Midwives, the numerous condescending comments that rain down upon pregnant women about not being woman enough to deal with their own pains. If you have not experienced this then you should know that this post is not intended for you. It is intended to be a voice of support for a woman's right to not have to suffer during labor.
~*Gen*~ -
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Re: Nothing Natural about "Natural Childbirth"
Mon, October 29, 2007 - 5:20 AMGen, I appreciate what you are saying. I think however you choose to birth you should educate yourself. I was a mom, who was not bullied into any birthing (I chose to have a c-section, btw). However, now that I've had my healthy, beautiful child I am looked down upon for a choice I made! I think that's outrageous. Much like anything else in the parenting world we all seemed to be judged one way or another, sometimes you just can't win in that regard. But what matters is that you feel ok with your decision and you have the "birth" experience that you want. That's what I did. And education is the key and knowing risks for ALL methods of childbirth is essential. -
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Re: Nothing Natural about "Natural Childbirth"
Mon, October 29, 2007 - 8:13 AMi do think that many people think my hubby and i were peculiar with the difference between what we planned and what we did, cuz they are on such opposite ends of the spectrum.
what we planned: hypnobirth. no meds, no nuthin! my doctor had never had a patient do it, but she was more than willing to have us be guinea pigs (i think she was curious), and she read all the books we brought in for her. super natural and non-interventionist. we were very very set and very clear about that from our first prenatal visit right up to our due date.
what we did: scheduled c-section four days after the due date, because my son was supposed to be HUGE. as in, he dropped partway and got stuck in my pelvis (i never even went into labor). my doctor was saying if she let me try to go into labor, it will be a long, exhausting, miserable experience for everyone, and chances were we'd have to do an emergency c-section. she said she didn't even want to try to induce. she was saying,"i know you wanted to go all natural, but i really feel a c-section ASAP is best." imagine the look on her face when i said,"i agree, and i'm comfortable with that plan." she then spent 20 minutes explaining why she thought this was best, with me saying the whole time,"no, really, i understand, and i agree, and i feel ok about it."
my son wound up not being huge (8 lb 3 oz), but he had a giant head. at birth, his head circumference was average for a 12 month old. yeah, he was good and stuck in there, and not coming out. the hypnobirth stuff came in handy, cuz it was a very very mellow, relaxed experience for everyone. my boy breathed really well from moment one, but no crying....easy mellow kid. after it's all said and done, we had a great birth.
i do feel that a big part of how we ended up feeling about the situation was that we had not only read up on hypnobirth, but also epidurals, and pitocin (which i fear more than anything, because they don't know what it will do to you till they give it to you), and c-sections. walking into that last appointment, we knew exactly under what circumstances we would deviate from our game plan. those circumstances happened, so......
although i am a little amused when people were like, so why did you have a c-section? are you that impatient or afraid of pain? and sometimes i say, lemme just show you a photo of my newborn. a friend said is most efficiently: "OMG, IT'S A PUMPKIN ON A TOOTHPICK!"
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Re: Nothing Natural about "Natural Childbirth"
Mon, October 29, 2007 - 8:22 AM"There is a huge myth out there that states that women have been successfully giving birth for thousands of years, seemingly from the dawn of creation, without medical help or pain control. That is NOT true."
I understand what you are saying, but when you make a blanket statement like this to open a post, I'm sorry, but it is not from an informed point of view. If you had said that not ALL women have been birthing this way throughout history it would have been accurate. But the fact is that women HAVE been laboring successfully for thousands of years without intervention, and in fact they are doing it still. I am sorry if you have felt judged and frowned upon for your birth choices, but part of using the "be educated" platform is to fully recognize and understand the history and social ramifications for women in handing our birthing bodies over to the medical profession, which, by the way, 95% of women in the USA have done. So those of us on the non interference side of childbirth experience a whole host of discrimination, doubt, and are often berated for not doing birth the way "it's supposed to be done", i.e. with a doctor and nurses calling the shots. When you elect a cesarean for any reason than one that is medically indicated you are choosing a more dangerous route for bringing your baby into the world. And can we as mothers remember that the birth experience is not solely our own, it belongs to someone else as well, someone who cannot tell us their preference, but biology has clearly indicated the most comfortable birth path for a baby. Sorry if this is harsh, but saying there is "nothing natural about natural childbirth" is stating a anthropological and historical account of birth that is just not accurate. If what you were really getting at is that you did not feel respected for your birthing choices, there are better ways of saying it than trying to slam and devalue a choice that is made by a minority of women and gets slammed enough by the medical industry as it is. -
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Re: Nothing Natural about "Natural Childbirth"
Tue, October 30, 2007 - 3:33 AMNothing Natural????
I was so Naturaly HIGH - higher than Ive ever been in my whole life!
no herbs, no drugs, no meds.
I didnt want it, and I didnt need it.
I chose to be as far away from medical interference as possible. As in all matters one needs to trust their instincts, i was feeling pretty confident that the universe would pull me through this, had i felt any doubt, or if I experienced any signs that might have concerned me, i would certainly have considered other options, but all was looking good, and It was nothing less than a totally mind blowing amazing experience. Im in awe of what our womanly bodys can do, and I must admit I feel pretty invincible now! : )
In labor, i thought of my friend thinking, `oh no, i cant imagaine her ever going through this, she wouldnt be able to handle it!! ` Not in anyway was i judging her, but it was out of concern for her, and I was convinced medical intervention would be a good choice for her, as she freely admits she has a very low tolerence for pain, I knew she would opt for it, and she did.
We both have beautiful babies. -
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Re: Nothing Natural about "Natural Childbirth"
Tue, October 30, 2007 - 4:59 AMThat's really the point, isn't it? To have beautiful, healthy mamas and BABIES! Let's not quibble about how we get there, ok? -
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Re: Nothing Natural about "Natural Childbirth"
Fri, November 23, 2007 - 1:02 PMI've had five kids they're ages are 20, 16,14,12, and 4. Each birth unique,(as are my kids) some births drug free, two epidural and one I even had laughing gas! One had to be induced early for medical reasons. I didn't feel less connected with any of my babies or their births because of the way they came into the world nor did I feel I missed out on something natural, I don't know of an artificial way of growing a baby in a uterus. Mothers have to start beating up on other mothers trying to prove that they are the "Wonder Earth Mother". Follow your own instincts and don't listen to the "you obviously didn't take whatever to heart and missed out" attitude of these women who are basically just insecure about their mothering in the first place. You are your best judge and the best mother for your child.
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Re: Nothing Natural about "Natural Childbirth"
Mon, November 26, 2007 - 10:42 AMI don't think the issue is off what will make you feel good or more connected to your babies, the issue is that America has the highest rate of medical rate of intervention and the highest rate of infant mortality of any industrialized nation...period, end of story. In other words...medicine does not equal safety. Please read the research on this, do not go blindly into birth...be safe. As someone on the thread said...the whole point is to have a healthy baby and mother...medical intervention, including pain management, does not ensure that. As much as I hate insurance companies many hospitals are having reduce the amount of intervention their doctors do because of the rise in their insurance because of so many complications. Read the research please!
www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/...ex/index.html
www.nytimes.com/2005/01/12...12kris.html
Reviews for Pushed by Jennifer Block, which contains many of the latest reports on infant mortality and medical intervention.
www.powells.com/biblio/2-9780738210735-1
www.curledupkids.com/pushedcb.htm
seattlepi.nwsource.com/health...27.html
and visit www.pushedbirth.com/ where Jennifer Block continues to give information that comes out by posting recent news reports and studies -
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Re: Nothing Natural about "Natural Childbirth"
Mon, November 26, 2007 - 5:05 PM"Follow your own instincts and don't listen to the "you obviously didn't take whatever to heart and missed out" attitude of these women who are basically just insecure about their mothering in the first place. You are your best judge and the best mother for your child."
I agree with the following instincts part, but cannot understand the "these women are insecure with their mothering" bit. I agree with zi-a, this is about women having control over their birth experiences, and I do not feel that I was in any way insecure about my mothering because I chose a home birth. Birthing at home with little to no interference felt safest to me, because pain scares me a hell of a lot less than having my abdomen sliced open. And while I know that birthing at home is not a sure fire way of avoiding a c-section, it certainly reduces the chances a great deal. Again, zi-a is right on in saying that medicine does not equal safety, and yet women are repeatedly coerced into decisions, or denied the treatment of their choice because the medical industry feels "safer" being in control of a womans body. If a woman wants an epidural, and knows this, more power to her, she is calling the shots. My best friend was administered two unnecessary episiotomies without her consent during both of her hospital births. She chose an epidural both times, and has no regrets about that intervention, after all it was her decision. but she does feel pain and loss from a doctor deciding that cutting her was more convenient than allowing her to stretch naturally, and that yet another doctor did not even ask whether or not she wanted that wound re opened. I would never dream of judging her for this, but I will definitely lay my piece of mind out there for an industry that does not respect a woman by allowing her absolute control over choices regarding her body.
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